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走进东南亚 | Mainspring CEO刘伟瀚,东南亚有何不同?

戈壁创投自2007年开始关注东南亚创业投资市场,并于2010年正式进驻东南亚,是第一家走进东南亚的中国VC。目前已经在新加坡、马来西亚、印度尼西亚分别设立办公室,并成立了完全本地化的戈壁创投东南亚团队。“走进东南亚”栏目是戈壁创投整合多年来在东南亚地区的创业投资观察、投融资消息等内容的专栏。

本文的MainSpring,是戈壁创投在东南亚地区投出的代表投资组合。戈壁分别在2013年、2014年、2015年对其进行了A轮、B轮、C轮的连续投资。它正在发展壮大中,已成为东南地区优秀创业公司的凤毛麟角,被誉为“东南亚版的今日头条”。目前,Mainspring与今日头条保持了密切的合作关系,尤其在东南亚地区的业务。

日前举行的“清华五道口金融EMBA&EE 2018新年思想汇”上,清华大学五道口金融EMBA“一带一路”东南亚首期班学生、Mainspring CEO刘伟瀚以“东南亚有何不同?(How Southeast Asia is Different)”发表主题演讲,介绍了东南亚国家的互联网行业特点,刘伟瀚认为中国初创公司在东南亚开展业务必须学会拥抱东南亚地区的多样性,从中国引入研发人才,并且在参考中国的模式时更要考虑东南亚国家的实际特点。

以下为演讲全文:

大家下午好,我非常荣幸今天能够来到这里,站在讲台上面对大家进行分享。我来自马来西亚,但我在北京生活了很多年,北京已经成为了我第二个家乡,非常感谢大家邀请我来到这里。

 
几年前,我当时还住在北京,我看到互联网企业在中国快速崛起,当时我非常震惊,我问自己,这种情况能在东南亚能复制吗?如果可以的话,会在哪里率先开始?会在我的家乡马来西亚吗?或者在泰国、印尼、菲律宾?我打赌会从印度尼西亚开始,有以下原因:

 
第一点,印尼是个大国,有2亿人口。

 
第二点,那时印尼的互联网普及率并不高。

 
第三点,在那里我有语言优势。

考虑到这些情况,我和朋友几年前在雅加达开了一个企业。目前,我们有200人的团队,我们的新闻和视频业务遍布整个东南亚,包括印尼、台湾、越南等国。我们与今日头条合作密切,而且与今日头条在东南亚开展合作。

 
在我的企业和业务之外,更重要的一点是,互联网在印尼和东南亚的崛起,这就是我们今天想谈论的一点。从这个表格可以看出,这是在过去三四年的一个情况,千百家企业在东南亚兴起,与中国类似,在电子商务、金融科技、旅游、媒体等领域。大多数的资金和企业都是来自印尼、新加坡,占据了新兴企业的绝大多数。

 
VC在过去几年是微不足道的,但在去年达到80亿美金,过去几年来快速成长。产生了很多大型企业,比如Grab,还有一些创新型企业也在快速崛起。可能有一些人不知道,如今很多的风投资本是来自中国的,东南亚超过90%的投资都是来自中国的,当然包括阿里巴巴、腾讯、京东这样的企业。还有很多初创企业也进行了投资,他们直接进入曼谷或者雅加达的市场开展业务。这是大势所趋。

 
原因并不难理解。大家可能去过东南亚国家,我来自金融EMBA“一带一路”东南亚班,班上一半的同学都是来自于东南亚国家。我们来自东南亚的5个不同国家,而东南亚一共有10个国家。如果我们把最大的5个国家加在一起,一共有6亿人口,基本上接近中国人口的一半。如果我们把这5个东南亚国家的互联网用户都加起来,有2.5亿网民,基本上和美国的量级相当。

 
这不仅仅是一个大的市场,还是一个非常年轻的市场。如果我们问中国的平均年龄是多少,差不多是37岁。东南亚则非常年轻,比如印尼、马来西亚、越南,基本上在30岁左右。这些国家都进入到获得人口红利的阶段,有很多年轻人进入就业市场,开始获得收入。同时,他们没有太多的牵绊, 并且不需要照顾很多老人或者孩子因此这是一个很好的经济增长阶段,不仅仅是互联网,也整个GDP快速增长的阶段。

 
从这些数据大家都可以得出以上结论,这仅仅是一个简单的总结,我想跟大家分享的是我五六年以来的个人经历,我看到了很多变化。为什么会发生这么大的变化,我们能够做什么?

如果你们对于进入这样一个市场非常感兴趣,东南亚和中国有一点很不同,有不同的宗教、治国体系、文化和人群。我来自马来西亚,我见到很多来自于泰国、印尼等东南亚国家的人们,事实上我没有听过任何人说我们是来自东南亚,因为东南亚并不是一个国家,东南亚跟欧盟这样的经济体也不同,我们没有统一的货币,没有统一利率或者法律框架,东南亚并没有很多的共同点,大家如果看这个表格可以看出来,我知道有很多种的颜色,这就是我想告诉大家的。如果拿宗教举例,可以看到在马来西亚和印尼,伊斯兰教是我们主要的宗教,菲律宾主要信奉天主教,泰国主要信奉佛教,南部除外。

 
在政治体系上我们可以看到有一些不同,比如菲律宾和印尼是民主政体,新加坡和马来西亚可以见到英国式的议会制度,泰国是君主立宪制,还有越南这样的共产主义国家,这是非常不同的情况。

 
这不仅仅是我们的体系,也可以看到即使互联网本身也是不同的,在中国有微信,几乎所有人都在用。但是在东南亚,我们有不同的通信软件,印尼使用黑莓的通讯软件、whatsApp、Line,菲律宾使用Facebook Messenger,越南使用Vibe,泰国也主要用Line,只有在马来西亚我们用微信。如果我是泰国人的话,我不知道如何与菲律宾人交谈,我必须要改变不同的应用体系。

 
为什么要考虑这种多样性?有两个原因:原因一,作为初创企业,我们的产品为谁服务?我们定位于泰国、菲律宾,我们首先要突破的市场是哪里?这是至关重要的一个问题。如果是一个产品几乎能够覆盖整个东南亚,我们怎么管理不同的员工,对大多数国家是个很困难的问题,对于我们初创企业,也是一个巨大的挑战,这是一个非常大的不同。

 
原因二,更重要可能还是人,特别是人才和研发人员。在座很多人在印尼开展过业务,我们有很多例子说明在印尼雇到好的研发团队有多困难。我想讲的一个情况,去年我们邀请了一个高级研发人员来面试,面试前一天,他说第二天下午1点到,可是到了2点他还没来,我给他打电话问为什么?是否有意外?为什么不来参加面试?他说很抱歉,我去了你办公室,但我找不到停车位,饶了一圈就离开了。这种现象在印尼其实非常常见。如果我在印尼找10个人来参加面试,可能2-3个不会出现。

 
我来分享去年的一些数据。我们收到1万份简历,邀请了4000个人参加面试,只有3000人来了,最后只雇佣100个员工。从简历到真正的雇佣,基本上是1%的录取率。所以,我会花很多时间在面试上,事实上我们每个周六都留出来,进行面试和招聘。为什么是这种情况?是我们过于挑剔吗?我们在雅加达有很多的IT岗位。或者是人们不在乎这一点,我并不这样认为。事实上我想分享一些数据,为什么在东南亚很难雇佣到人才。

 
我们回头来看中国的例子,有多少人知道PISA评分?PISA是国际学生的评价体系,OECD组织对全球的50万名学生进行测试。每三年一次,对他们在阅读、科学、数学等方面进行排序。这个是在2015年的一个数据,那么最排名靠前的大家可以看到是红色的,比如说像中国、日本、香港、台湾、新加坡,大多数是东亚的国家和地区。东南亚的国家我们可以看到,马来西亚可能是四十名,泰国是五十名左右,印尼是基本上是最后10名。所以,东南亚地区在科学方面的能力不够,这个是我们在研发方面的一个大的障碍。

我再说一下竞争的情况,在中国有BAT,在东南亚有FYI,是指Facebook、YouTube、Instagram 这里有2亿用户,我们是做媒体、新闻的,每天早上我们都在想,客户为什么会用我们这样的APP呢?这是巨大的挑战,对于东南亚区域的创业企业来说,也是一样。作为创业公司要如何和此类大型公司进行竞争,然而,由于这些公司已经非常庞大,因此在某些方面可能成为创业公司的合作伙伴,证明你的价值和开始的基础。一开始你不要跟他有正面的冲突,你可以跟他做朋友。因此,我们可以看到东南亚是与众不同的,我们有多样化、我们研究方面有人才的差距,我们有Facebook和Google。
 

我简单的总结一下,作为一个中国的初创公司,如何开展东南亚业务?首先,要学会拥抱东南亚地区的多样性,学会接受这个地区是与众不同,但是如果你想成功、扩大规模,那么你必须涉及到所有的国家才行,若只在泰国、马来西亚等等,他们的规模远远不够。你必须要扩大规模,尤其是互联网行业一旦扩大规模就会知道在东南亚这个是很难的,首先有正确的产品、正确的管理方式。但是值得投资。第二,如果你是来自于中国的企业,东南亚研发的人才是不够的,而中国在这方面有很多,这是中国企业到这些地区去的时候带的天然优势,带去产品和技术,产生很大影响。第三,我有朋友跟我说,现在中国很火,我们能不能直接把中国的模式复制到泰国、印尼去呢?我说这个得看环境,大多数的情况下是不行的,这得看你的情况是什么样的,我们得接受一点就是东南亚不是中国,他们不可能有中国这么大,这么富裕,发展这么快。但是,这个里面有4亿人,如果你想投资点时间、金钱,再有一点耐心的话,看看这个市场,实际上到最后你会发现这个市场会让你感到兴奋的,而且这个地方度假也是很舒服的。

 
不管怎么说,谢谢大家的聆听,祝大家新年快乐!

以下为英文演讲稿:

Good afternoon, it’s a real honor and privilege standing here in front of all of you. I’m from Malaysia originally, but I’ve been living in Beijing for many years. This is really my second home, so thank you for having me speak here today.

 
Few years ago when I still lived in Beijing, I saw the rapid rise of Internet in China, I was really impressed and I asked myself, can this also happen in Southeast Asia? And if yes, where? Would it be Malaysia, where I’m from?Thailand, Indonesia or the Philippines? I bet it would be Indonesia, for a few reasons.

 
No.1, it’s a very big country, 2 hundred million people.

 
No.2, back then, the internet penetration is stillvery low.

 
And No.3. I happened to speak the language where I grew up.

 
So, because of that, I started a company with my friend, in Jakarta, a few years ago. Today, we have a 200-people team. We do news and video in all across Southeast Asia, countries like Indonesia, Thailand and so on, Vietnam. We work very close with Jinri Toutiao and we collaborate with them in this region.
 

Beyond my company and what I do, what is more important is actually the rise of the Internet in Indonesia and Southeast Asia more broadly speaking. That is the one that we are all here today for. If you look at this chart here, all of them just rise within 3 to 4 years. There have been hundreds of and even thousands of new companies emerging in South Asia, just like in China, E-commerce, Fintech, travel, media and so on. Most of the money and companies essentially from Indonesia or Singapore, this makes the vast majority of it.

 
As a result, venture funding has gone from virtually nothing in a few years, to 8 billion dollars last year actually. This is a mass increase within a few short years. Big giants like Grab and also some interesting new start-ups from the region as well. What some people might not know is that, much of the venture money in Southeast Asia today actually is from China. 90% plus money in Southeast Asia is from China, of course, companies like Ali, Tencent, JD, but also many start-ups now. They go directly to the markets like Bangkok and Jakarta to start their business. So this is a big trend.

 
It’s not hard to understand. Maybe some of you have been to Southeast Asia, some of you have not, I am from the Belt and Road EMBA class, so half of the class is from Southeast Asia. If we combine the five countries here-Southeast Asia is actually ten countries-If we combine the big five, we have 6 hundred million people, that is roughly half of the size of China, a bit less. If we combine all Internet users in Southeast Asia today, it’s 250 million people, just as the same size as the internet users in United States today.

 
So it is a big market, it’s also a very young market. If you ask someone, what is the average age in China today, it’s roughly about 37. Southeast Asia is quite a bit younger, like Indonesia, Malaysia and Vietnam, roughly about late 20s or early 30s. Many of these countries are going into the phase now what we called demographic dividend, where there is a lot of people who start to work. They started to generate income. At the same time, they don’t have a lot of dependents, and they don’t have a lot of children or old people to take care of, so this would be a very good period for growth, not only for internet, but GDP in general.

 
All these you can read from the papers, this is a quick summary. What I really want to share today, just my personal experience, I have been this for 5 to 6 years from now. I have to say it is very different. Why is it different, and what can you do about it? If you are interested in entering the market., one thing that is very different between Southeast Asia and China, is the share of diversity, the different religions, systems, cultures and people. I came here and say I’m from Malaysia. They come and say they are from Thailand, Indonesia. In fact, I’ve never met anyone who say that they are from Southeast Asia, because Southeast Asia is not a country, it’s not a concept, it’s not an economy block like the EU. We don’t share a currency, we don’t share interest rate, or legal framework, there are not many commonalities. If you look at this chart here, I know it’s a lot of colors but this one is what I can tell you. If you take religion for example, you can see that in Malaysia and Indonesia, Islam is the major religion, Philippine is mostly Catholic, and in Thailand, almost everyone is a Buddhist except in the south.

 
Interms of political systems, it’s democracy in Philippines, Indonesia; British parliament system in Singapore and Malaysia; You’ve got constitutional monarchyin Thailand; you’ve got communism party in Vietnam, so again, very different.

 
In fact it’s not just our systems, if you take a look at even the Internet, in China you’ve got one Wechat to rule them all, but in Southeast Asia, just take a look at our messaging systems. In Indonesia you’ve got blackberry, WhatsApp, Line. In Philippines you have Facebook Messenger. In Vietnam you have Vibe, in Thailand you have Line again. Only in Malaysia we use Wechat. So if I am a Thai person, I don’t know how to talk to the Philippines. I have to change to different chatting systems.

 
Coming back to this point, why does this diversity matter? It matters for two reasons. No.1 is what kind of product do you do as starters, who do you build for? You build for Thailand, or Philippines, who prioritizes as your base case market? That is a big issue. No.2, even if a product can go across the whole region, how do you manage the different teams? That’s a difficult issue for most companies, but as to a start-up, it’s a very challenging issue. This is one of the big differences.

 
Secondly, maybe even more importantly, people, specifically, about people and talent and R&D. Many of you work in Indonesia, we have stories about how hard it is to hire good R&D, in Indonesia. My first story is last year, we asked a very senior developer to come to interview. The day before he sent us a message saying he will be there at 1 pm next day, but at 2 pm he still doesn’t show up. So we called and asked what’s going on, was there an accident, or why he doesn’t come here to interview. He said I’m sorry, actually I went to your office, but I couldn’t find parking, I circled around, so I left. That was not an unusual story. If you invite 10 people to interview in Indonesia, for example, my experience is that 2 or 3 just won’t show up.

 
I’ll share some stats, like last year, we looked at 10 thousand CVs. We invited about 4000, but only 3000 showed up, I think we made offers to less than 100 people. So when it goes from CVs to actually hire someone, it’s like 1% rate. As a result, I spend a lot of my time interviewing. In fact, we reserved every Saturday just to interview and hire people. You might be wondering why is it, is it us too picky, or is it because there are too many IT works are in Jakarta and people don’t care, I don’t think so. In fact I would like to share some data about, why is it so much harder to find a talent in Southeast Asia?

 
Come back to China for example, look at this chart. How many of you know the PISA score? It’s a program for international students assessment. The OECD gives theexam to 500 thousand students across the world. Every 3 years, they rank all the students, in reading, science, and mathematics, by country, basically. This is a result from 2015. If you look at the countries at the top, it’s red. It’s people like China, Japan, Hong Kong, Taiwan, and Singapore, mostly East Asia countries and regions. Where do Southeast Asia countries rank? We’ve got Malaysia maybe ranking at 40, Thailand at 50, and Indonesia No. 10 from the bottom. So as a region, we don’t have much capability in science and math, this is a big handicap for trying to build good R&D capability.

 
I will go over competition quickly, in China we got BAT, in Southeast Asia, we have FYI, which is Facebook, Youtube and Instagram. As you can see, there are 200 million users, because we do news and video, every day I wake up I was thinking, why should someone use our app and not just use Youtube or Instagram. That’s a big challenge. I think it is true from many start-ups in this region. How do we compete with these companies that are already so large. But at the same time, because they are so large, they are also your friend, you can prove your MVP, initial base, really by learning how to work with Facebook in a very smart way. So anyway, we can see that South East Asia is very different. We’ve got diversity, we’ve got the difference in R&D talent, we’ve got Facebook and Google.

 
I just want to wrap up today, by summarizing these, what can you really do about this, as a company (startup) from China? No.1 you have to learn to embrace the diversity of the region, you have to accept. The region is very different, but if you want to be successful, you have to be able to scale across all countries. If you are just doing Indonesia and Thailand, it’s subscale, it’s too small. As we know, when it comes to Internet business, you have to get to the scale, if you want to do the scale, you have to do across the region. But that is really hard. First it takes the right product, managing in the right way, but it is worth investment. No. 2, this is very unique to China. As I said before, in Southeast Asia we have a shortage of R&D talent. China has a lot of it. This is an atural strength for Chinese companies going to region, you have product, technology which you can bring into the region and make a huge impact. Last but not least, many friends asking, it is hot in China now. Can we copy a good idea from China to Thailand, Indonesia? I said, it depends, most of the time you cannot, it depends on what you have. One thing we have to accept is that, Southeast Asia is not China. They will never be as big, as rich or as fast exponentially. But it’s a market of 400 million people, if you really invest time, money, and patience, to find what users really need, I think you will find it to be areally exciting market, and also a good place to take vacation.

So anyway, thank you very much, thank you for your time, and happy new year.


Mainspring CEO刘伟瀚


附上视频:

https://v.qq.com/x/page/w0538crf04x.html